DogeCoin system rework. Due date[10/09/2021]

[Teles]

I would like to know ideas for replacing/changing the current system. Few things I have in mind:
Replacing the system completely with quests.
Changing the rewards for the weeklies and making them give twice more and nerfing accordingly the drop for Tradable DogeCoins.


Please, no static stage.

 

[JeffdaChef]

First of all why are we using this forum page when we could be using Discord... no-one is going to go thru the trouble to post here. I think a discord discussion channel in slow mode (1 message every 10ish minutes) on this topic is wise.

Don't change the system. How it works now is perfect, group play is incentivized through the quests, and the stage changing every week is great. F*** the haters, please GOD don't make any sort of drastic changes and kill the server.

 

[Teles]

First of all why are we using this forum page when we could be using Discord... no-one is going to go thru the trouble to post here. I think a discord discussion channel in slow mode (1 message every 10ish minutes) on this topic is wise.

Don't change the system. How it works now is perfect, group play is incentivized through the quests, and the stage changing every week is great. F*** the haters, please GOD don't make any sort of drastic changes and kill the server.

It's close to impossible to catch up with discussions there. Every time there is a discussion about a certain topic I never know what the conclusion was or even if there were any.

 

[Teles]

I agree with Jeffda Chef
no need to change the DC system. It's in perfect
It might be wiser to add a stage that drops DC For the New Player
The only problem with DC is Weekly and Reward, but the system itself doesn't need to be touched. Changing the current DC system can also destroy what has been built since the beginning of the server

 

[Teles]

I agree with Jeffda Chef
no need to change the DC system. It's in perfect
It might be wiser to add a stage that drops DC For the New Player
The only problem with DC is Weekly and Compensation, but the system itself doesn't need to be touched. Changing the current DC system can also destroy what has been built since the beginning of the server

I agree with you 100%. There are problems with the system I totally agree. Weeklies shouldn't require a minimum amount of players to be completed. And perhaps they could get a little boost on the amount of DC(with lowering of the tradable drop, of course)?

 

[Teles]

What if I make the combination of all weeklies give you a reward. Like mhm.. 100 DC? And it only gives you the reward if you complete all of the weeklies.

 

[Arch]

I agree with Jeffda Chef
no need to change the DC system. It's in perfect
It might be wiser to add a stage that drops DC For the New Player
The only problem with DC is Weekly and Compensation, but the system itself doesn't need to be touched. Changing the current DC system can also destroy what has been built since the beginning of the server

I agree with you 100%. There are problems with the system I totally agree. Weeklies shouldn't require a minimum amount of players to be completed. And perhaps they could get a little boost on the amount of DC(with lowering of the tradable drop, of course)?

The tradable drop don't need nerf. People already don't like it the way it is now and I can't see a reason to nerf it just because you are adjusting the weekly quests. Just transform the weeklys into something reasonable and worth enough to be done and keep the farmable system the way it is now (even if I personaly don't like the tradable farming doge system, if it will continue then there is no reason to nerf the drop that is already bad).


And about the quests itself:
Myth raids:
Change 2x Charlotte to 1x Bigtalk and 1x Charlote
Change 2x Balmote to 1x Balmote and 1x Siren
Change 2x Endless Lower Lava to 1x Endless lower and 1x Uper Volcano
Change 2x Cobolt to 1x Cobolt and 1x Giraffe
Change 2x Necromancer to 1x Necromancer and 1x Certak
Change 2x Guilhotine to 1x Grimbathol and 1x Guilhotine

Add doge coin weekly at Gateway DD.

Transfer part of the doge coins from the stage raids to the myth raids, increasing from 5 doge per quest to 10 doge per quest.

Stage raids are the worst place for weeklys, specially 2x each stage raid, but there are the most part of doge rewards. (consider reduce to 1 run and reduce the rewards by half / transfer the doges to the myth weeklys)

Also, make the quests possible to be completed solo.

- Reduce the gold price of items at doge coin stoge, specially catalyst and restoration stones and pet related items. The currency have to be the Market with gold and not the Doge NPC:
Restoration stones 50g
Catalyst 50g
Locked Strange box 200g
Strange box key 30g
Any pet scrolls 1000g
Pet training 750g
Pet food? Should not even be paid lol. We are not in 2009 anymore.
(the doge price stays the same)


It all should fix the problems with doge system.

 

[Teles]

What if I make the combination of all weeklies give you a reward. Like mhm.. 100 DC? And it only gives you the reward if you complete all of the weeklies.

Well, if there's an attractive additional reward for clearing all Weekly, I think a lot of people will try to run Weekly.
But you can't stop them from heading to the stage
Because we want to be strong. Using DC, we can be finite but very strong XD
But your idea is very appealing I think it's important to motivate them to clear up Weekly!

 

[Pokerface]

So, when u say no static stage, making dg drop in every single stage, with a nerfed rate is out of question??


If yes, what if we change the idea itself, remove drops in stage, create some kind of stage that is only doable once a week, with a time limit of 3hours, the idea is, every 1000 monsters killed u get a voucher, ea voucher grants you 50dg(drops for everyone in the pt) and u have the possibility of facing a boss(one single death and the run dies) kill it for the chance of getting a new voucher, this time only one in the pt will get the voucher.

But... This would be a static stage, yeah, but we are going to change the weekly, by making it random, and how would it work?? Quests gonna need only one deathless stage clear to complete it. Since we have achievs that requires deathless runs i think this is doable.


Its hard to make it work? Idk, probably, but it would be far less boring to death for the players


Not so friendly for the newcomers and for that the newcomers gotta get an untradable title, with a 1 week duration for the 1st created char in its account, that would give the bonus of a pet of its class.

And for a server that has already ppl.doing dd5 when it was not supposed to happen due to the server's idea its a good way make newcomers stay a little longer

 

[Kazzel]

I agree with Arch on most of their points.
Removing the party restriction on the weeklies (or increasing the rewards) would make doing them worth it.
Right now it takes way too long to find enough people to party. So it is better to just farm solo somewhere else.

Maybe we could solve the problem of not enough parties in another way. I think it would be a good idea to increase (even more) the doge drop chance on full parties and reduce it for solo.

I like the idea of the doge coin store being a gold sink. Lunia doesn't have enough of those and farming gold isn't that hard.
But i also agree with Arch, those gold prices are a bit much.

I'd also remove stage raids from the weeklies and think of another way to make them attractive. It takes too long to complete those stages, it would be less of a chore if the sets were stronger.

---
PT:
Concordo com o Arch na maioria dos pontos.
As semanais valeriam mais a pena sem restrição de party (ou aumentando as recompensas).
Hoje leva muito tempo até achar gente suficiente pra formar o grupo. Nesse tempo vale mais farmar solo em outra fase de doge.

Talvez fosse possível resolver o problema de não ter party suficiente de outra forma. Acho que seria legal aumentar (ainda mais) o drop de doge em party full e reduzir em solo.


Gosto da ideia da loja de doge ser um lugar pra diminuir o gold do server. Acho que tem pouco disso no Lunia e farmar gold não é tão difícil.
Mas também concordo com o Arch que os preços em gold da loja de doge estão exagerados.

Eu também removeria as raids stage das semanais e pensaria em outra forma de deixar essas fases atrativas. Leva tempo demais pra completar as raids, não é desafiador, só chato mesmo.
Eu me sentiria mais satisfeito se os sets dessas fases fossem mais fortes pra valer o esforço.

 

[Lobo]

My suggestion considering the current rates of dogecoin:

4 Maps will be chosen every week with the following distribution

1 Map History - Buff Current Doge Drop Rates for History Maps by 20%
Comment: The amount of doges has to be somehow equal for people to do the history and legend stages as well.
Map Reroll : If it lands on M1/M2/M3 Reroll since they're not farmable maps.

1 Map Legend - Buff Current Doge Drop Rates for Legend Maps by 40%
Comment: The reason would be that maps are harder to farm, bigger and mobs have more hp and are more boring to kill.

1 Map Divine - Nerf Current Doge Drop Rates for Divine Maps by -20%
Comment: If you leave the rates the way they are everyone will only farm in divine because you also get soul/exp/box besides some classes farm very quickly.
Map Reroll: Cracked Dimension, Demon Lord Prison, Spider God Prison, Devastated Forest,Conjurer Cave and Cave of Caos reroll since they're not farmable maps.

1 Map Raid - Buff Current Doge Drop Rates for Raid Maps by 20%
Comment: I'm not sure about this one I think no one will want to raid because it's too boring.

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Remembering that it is just a suggestion no one is obliged to agree.

 

[shoddypriority32]

The target for the doge coin farm is 402dc/15hours.
The playerbase sometimes complain that going full party is not worth to farm doges.

Here's how the system could be reworked:
-The stage rotation continues. New stages every week to farm.
-Full party, or at least close to full in stages like raids, is required to drop doges.
-At the end of every stage clear, X fixed quantity of doges are given to each player.
-The doge quantity would be calculated by the time each stage takes, so that the target can be reached within expected time: if a stage takes 5 minutes to clear, it would drop 2,23 doges. In one hour you would get 26,76 doges, and in 15 hours you would get 401,4 doges (the numbers are rounded).

The advantages:
-No more complaining that 1 run dropped 1 or 10 doges.
-Party play is incentivized.
-The target amount can be reached without depending on any rng, leaving no room for frustration.
-There would be no best or worst map to farm: each map has it's doge quantity calibrated by the amount it takes to complete. Whether you can farm better or worse would depend on the time you take for each run.

Also, to fix the problem of "broken" quantity of doges: multiply the amount of everything that uses doges by 100 including the amount dropped. That way what would be 2,23 doges before would become 223 doges. However, 20 catas on doge shop would cost 600 doges instead of 6.
Either that or create broken doge coins which have the value of 0.01 doges each and make them drop together with normal doges so that if the value being used is 2,23 doges, you would drop 2 doges and 23 broken doges.
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A quantidade alvo de doges é 420dc/15 horas
A comunidade reclama algumas vezes que jogar em pts cheias não vale a pena para farmar doges.
Aqui está como o sistema pode ser refeito:
-A rotação de fases continua. Haverão novas fases toda semana para farmar.
-A pt tem que estar com players até o limite de cada fase, ou pelo menos perto do limite em fases como as raids, para dropar doges.
-No final de cada fase, X quantidade fixa de doges são dadas a cada jogador.
-A quantidade de doges seria calculada pelo tempo que cada fase leva, para que a quantidade alvo de doges seja alcançada no tempo esperado: se uma fase leva 5 minutos para ser completa, droparia-se 2,23 doges. Em uma hora você pegaria 26,76 doges, e em 15 horas 401,4 doges (os números estão arredondados).

As vantagens:
-Sem mais reclamações que em uma run foram dropadas 1 ou 10 doges.
-Jogar em equipe seria incentivado.
-A quantidade alvo pode ser alcançada sem depender de aleatoriedade, não deixando nenhuma margem para frustração.
-Não haveria melhor ou pior mapa para farmar: cada mapa teria sua quantidade de doges calibrada pelo tempo que se leva para completá-la. Se você pode farmar melhor ou pior depende do tempo que você leva para completar cada fase.

Também, para consertar o problema da quantidade "quebrada" de doges: multiplicar a quantidade de tudo que usa doge por 100, inclusive a quantidade que dropa. Desse jeito o que seriam 2,23 doges se tornariam 223 doges. Porém 20 catalisadores na loja custariam 600 doges ao invés de 6.
Isso ou criar doge coins quebradas que tem o valor de 0.01 doges, e fazer com que elas dropem junto com as doges normais, para que se o valor sendo usado for 2,23 doges, você droparia 2 doges e 23 doges quebradas.

 

[Teles]

-At the end of every stage clear, X fixed quantity of doges are given to each player.

No more RNG, right? I'm not really a huge fan of run x to get y. I really enjoy RNG.

-The doge quantity would be calculated by the time each stage takes, so that the target can be reached within expected time: if a stage takes 5 minutes to clear, it would drop 2,23 doges. In one hour you would get 26,76 doges, and in 15 hours you would get 401,4 doges (the numbers are rounded).

This is precisely how it's done right now. If the stages take 10 minutes to clear so, it should give 402/15/6 => 4.466666666666667
If the stage has 100 mobs then the rate should be -> 4.466666666666667/100 -> 0.0446666666666
Correct if I'm wrong.

Also, to fix the problem of "broken" quantity of doges: multiply the amount of everything that uses doges by 100 including the amount dropped. That way what would be 2,23 doges before would become 223 doges. However, 20 catas on doge shop would cost 600 doges instead of 6.
Either that or create broken doge coins which have the value of 0.01 doges each and make them drop together with normal doges so that if the value being used is 2,23 doges, you would drop 2 doges and 23 broken doges.

Okay, sure. But then are you suggesting that DogeCoins should go directly to your inventory? I think that if the drop is insanely high to compensate for the huge amount of requirements I think that people would just run around picking it up other than play the game lol

 

[Teles]

My suggestion considering the current rates of dogecoin:

4 Maps will be chosen every week with the following distribution

1 Map History - Buff Current Doge Drop Rates for History Maps by 20%
Comment: The amount of doges has to be somehow equal for people to do the history and legend stages as well.
Map Reroll : If it lands on M1/M2/M3 Reroll since they're not farmable maps.

1 Map Legend - Buff Current Doge Drop Rates for Legend Maps by 40%
Comment: The reason would be that maps are harder to farm, bigger and mobs have more hp and are more boring to kill.

1 Map Divine - Nerf Current Doge Drop Rates for Divine Maps by -20%
Comment: If you leave the rates the way they are everyone will only farm in divine because you also get soul/exp/box besides some classes farm very quickly.
Map Reroll: Cracked Dimension, Demon Lord Prison, Spider God Prison, Devastated Forest,Conjurer Cave and Cave of Caos reroll since they're not farmable maps.

1 Map Raid - Buff Current Doge Drop Rates for Raid Maps by 20%
Comment: I'm not sure about this one I think no one will want to raid because it's too boring.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Remembering that it is just a suggestion no one is obliged to agree.

I'm unsure whether you understood how the probabilities are calculated or not. The stages taking longer to clear dictates the probability ratio. the longer it takes the higher the probability. The fewer mobs there are the higher the probability. It's a self-regulating rate to a certain degree.

It doesn't matter to me if it's "farmable" or not. You should not be farming DC all day long. It's something to farm alongside your gameplay and not the other way around. Having so many valuable items in one place is probably the issue.

 

[Teles]

I agree with Jeffda Chef
no need to change the DC system. It's in perfect
It might be wiser to add a stage that drops DC For the New Player
The only problem with DC is Weekly and Compensation, but the system itself doesn't need to be touched. Changing the current DC system can also destroy what has been built since the beginning of the server

I agree with you 100%. There are problems with the system I totally agree. Weeklies shouldn't require a minimum amount of players to be completed. And perhaps they could get a little boost on the amount of DC(with lowering of the tradable drop, of course)?

The tradable drop don't need nerf. People already don't like it the way it is now and I can't see a reason to nerf it just because you are adjusting the weekly quests. Just transform the weeklys into something reasonable and worth enough to be done and keep the farmable system the way it is now (even if I personaly don't like the tradable farming doge system, if it will continue then there is no reason to nerf the drop that is already bad).


And about the quests itself:
Myth raids:
Change 2x Charlotte to 1x Bigtalk and 1x Charlote
Change 2x Balmote to 1x Balmote and 1x Siren
Change 2x Endless Lower Lava to 1x Endless lower and 1x Uper Volcano
Change 2x Cobolt to 1x Cobolt and 1x Giraffe
Change 2x Necromancer to 1x Necromancer and 1x Certak
Change 2x Guilhotine to 1x Grimbathol and 1x Guilhotine

Add doge coin weekly at Gateway DD.

Transfer part of the doge coins from the stage raids to the myth raids, increasing from 5 doge per quest to 10 doge per quest.

Stage raids are the worst place for weeklys, specially 2x each stage raid, but there are the most part of doge rewards. (consider reduce to 1 run and reduce the rewards by half / transfer the doges to the myth weeklys)

Also, make the quests possible to be completed solo.

- Reduce the gold price of items at doge coin stoge, specially catalyst and restoration stones and pet related items. The currency have to be the Market with gold and not the Doge NPC:
Restoration stones 50g
Catalyst 50g
Locked Strange box 200g
Strange box key 30g
Any pet scrolls 1000g
Pet training 750g
Pet food? Should not even be paid lol. We are not in 2009 anymore.
(the doge price stays the same)


It all should fix the problems with doge system.

What I think is wrong is that MYTH raids take roughly one hour to complete, so, in theory, 2 hours in total. Let's assume it will take 3 hours just for the sake of overshooting.

402DC / 15 hours => 27DC/h
3*27 = 81 DC //current system gives more than that.

To complete all the Stage raids it takes about an hour and a half. To complete the quests you would need two times each so, we double that and add a margin of error. Let's go with three hours and forty-five minutes.

402DC / 15 => 27 DC/h
3.75*27 = 102DC

In total, we should expect to receive 183DC for the sum of both. I was thinking of maybe, I should perhaps make a unique reward where you need to complete all of the quests and then you get a bonus, something like 20/30% extra? 180*0.3 = 54DC?

About the gold numbers. I still think that DogeCoin is a decent money sink. I'm seeing a constant increase in gold since the server began but nothing too crazy. Gold prices are probably fine as is?

 

[shoddypriority32]

No more RNG, right? I'm not really a huge fan of run x to get y. I really enjoy RNG.

Wouldn't it be better to make a pool and see if the players prefer fixed doge drop or not?

This is precisely how it's done right now. If the stages take 10 minutes to clear so, it should give 402/15/6 => 4.466666666666667
If the stage has 100 mobs then the rate should be -> 4.466666666666667/100 -> 0.0446666666666
Correct if I'm wrong.

Yes, that was my objective. The system would stay the same for the costs and current drop target.

Okay, sure. But then are you suggesting that DogeCoins should go directly to your inventory? I think that if the drop is insanely high to compensate for the huge amount of requirements I think that people would just run around picking it up other than play the game lol

Exactly, the doges would simply go directly to the bag, or just drop them on your character's feet at the end of the stage, like the weeklies rewards.

 

[Lobo]

My suggestion considering the current rates of dogecoin:

4 Maps will be chosen every week with the following distribution

1 Map History - Buff Current Doge Drop Rates for History Maps by 20%
Comment: The amount of doges has to be somehow equal for people to do the history and legend stages as well.
Map Reroll : If it lands on M1/M2/M3 Reroll since they're not farmable maps.

1 Map Legend - Buff Current Doge Drop Rates for Legend Maps by 40%
Comment: The reason would be that maps are harder to farm, bigger and mobs have more hp and are more boring to kill.

1 Map Divine - Nerf Current Doge Drop Rates for Divine Maps by -20%
Comment: If you leave the rates the way they are everyone will only farm in divine because you also get soul/exp/box besides some classes farm very quickly.
Map Reroll: Cracked Dimension, Demon Lord Prison, Spider God Prison, Devastated Forest,Conjurer Cave and Cave of Caos reroll since they're not farmable maps.

1 Map Raid - Buff Current Doge Drop Rates for Raid Maps by 20%
Comment: I'm not sure about this one I think no one will want to raid because it's too boring.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Remembering that it is just a suggestion no one is obliged to agree.

I'm unsure whether you understood how the probabilities are calculated or not. The stages taking longer to clear dictates the probability ratio. the longer it takes the higher the probability. The fewer mobs there are the higher the probability. It's a self-regulating rate to a certain degree.

It doesn't matter to me if it's "farmable" or not. You should not be farming DC all day long. It's something to farm alongside your gameplay and not the other way around. Having so many valuable items in one place is probably the issue.

I get it, my suggestion was made thinking that a lot of people don't want to do any History / Legend farm.

This would be solved by always placing a map in divine but nerfing the rates there like a "Penalty"
About the 20%/40% buffs in History/Legend work as an incentive for people to farm in other places as well depending on the luck of which map it falls.


But in the end it looks like the intention is really to end this endless and boring Doge Coin farm, so my suggestion won't do. I hope you can balance it so that the game doesn't get too easy.

 

[Teles]

Wouldn't it be better to make a pool and see if the players prefer fixed doge drop or not?

Most likely people would vote for NON-RNG related. But we are on an MMORPG where essentially walking is RNG. Crit chances are RNG, the damage is RNG...

Exactly, the doges would simply go directly to the bag, or just drop them on your character's feet at the end of the stage, like the weeklies rewards.

Well, would this solve the issue where people are feeling obligated to farm DogeCoin. I think it would turn out to be a waste of time to implement such changes if the only change is scale. I agree that would help morale a bit tho...

 

[Lobo]

I would like to know ideas for replacing/changing the current system. Few things I have in mind:
Replacing the system completely with quests.
Changing the rewards for the weeklies and making them give twice more and nerfing accordingly the drop for Tradable DogeCoins.


Please, no static stage.

If the doges start to be mainly weekly, this will generate a wave of people creating about 5 characters just to do weekly in all of them... I recommend thinking a lot about this

 

[Teles]

I would like to know ideas for replacing/changing the current system. Few things I have in mind:
Replacing the system completely with quests.
Changing the rewards for the weeklies and making them give twice more and nerfing accordingly the drop for Tradable DogeCoins.


Please, no static stage.

If the doges start to be mainly weekly, this will generate a wave of people creating about 5 characters just to do weekly in all of them... I recommend thinking a lot about this

This is one of the biggest reasons why the current is in place other than weeklies.... I mean, those are the same people who farm DC 24/7 as of today. But at least it's fair with others in a way.